Zark, what will be changed? Because personally i like the idea of there being resources in the world. And possibly trade, alliances, and maybe a tile based map?
It would be even cooler if there are only so much resource you can get from a city, which means that there would end up being an economy, and a natural barrier to how much you can build.
I honestly don't have a precise plan yet. Everything you mention is something I've considered. The main requirements are:
I say resources should not be limited and here is why: currently we get resources based on the wealth of the cities we own and the cost of thing like crew and management. It's well balanced and ensures a steady supply as well as making us to pay attention and be careful about how we capture cities. I will post 2 game examples of games that have limited resources.
Homeworld 2: There is a limited amount of resources and during many large skirmishes you can run out of resources and resort to harvesting the remains of large enemy ships( which is cool) however victory doesn't feel like victory when you win and it's only because they ran out of resources and you managed not, did not really crush them to which sucks.
Warcraft 3(more well known i'm assuming): if you run out of gold because of a long battle (I mean all of the gold on the map) it sucks and takes away( I have had where we lose all units and have nothing but towers and other building left because we ran out of resources.
Both of these are examples of how limited resources on the map(land,place what not) is not a great thing and while it works for them this game is well setup to not be like that. While we can "get resources" from enemy ships the amount we get for scarping them in barely anything in terms of cost from building them and on top of that we have to capture with marines in order to do it. Limited resources on the map just does not seem to add anything to gameplay and seems like it would take away from it.
I don't mean to be rude, but can i point out that there is an easy solution?
Simply make it so when ever you destroy a module on a ship completely, you get 95% of that module's resources. Or make it simpler where when you defeat a ship you get 95% of its resources.
This would create a circulation of resources. Like i pointed out before.
It would also eventually lead to a mad max scenario where you have to conserve resources to a ridiculous degree.
And, to stop the inevitable scenario where you sit 5 hours from the game's start with no resources and no ships; you could make it so that the city starves.
And, i'm also going to go ahead and point out that the city's resources would finally be drained only after a very long time.
And for fucks sake do you not realize how gamebreaking it would be to produce resources for an infinite amount of time?!?!
Empires would end up snowballing just as they do now.
Zark could even make a refinement process, so that when the enemy looses ships to you, but wins the battle they get their resources back, but in raw form(scrap)
In other words, whoever wins the battle would get the booty, but they would have to refine it all over again.
Zark, if we had ships that could collect resources, and carry resources(Trade, and supply). Would it be too much?
Commander, Engineering Corps
There could be a module trading system where certain modules are more expensive in some towns than they are in others.
Town 1 has Fire Points that cost 10% more than Town 2's Fire Points. A player could load up a trading ship with Fire Points from Town 2 and remove the modules and sell them at Town 1.
There would be some risk involved, as a ship with lots of superfluous modules would be less efficient at combat than a solely combat-oriented ship.
Exactly my thinking. :D
Except it would be nice if ships could also have a module that carries resources.
Varying prices per city would be easier to add to the game than an entirely new section of cargo modules. Plus, taking pieces off one's ship and selling them for profit plays off the whole "modular airship design" theme that Airships is all about.
True, but still it would be nice to have a localized resource factor that makes transporting resources a thing.
Because, personally i think it would be easier just to transport resources than modules, but i'm likely wrong there.
Hey... Just thought of something.
You know how the larger cargo door modules often leave you with a bunch of extra supply slots? Perhaps those excess slots could be used to carry trading goods.
As it stands, the game is prevented from snowballing into giant fleets by maintenance costs. I do think there are some balance issues with this:
I think a trading system would be way too complicated to manage. That being said, it is a pretty fun gameplay element, hm.
Switching over from a single resource model of money to a bunch of resources - wood, steel, cloth, manpower, suspendium - is something I'm heavily considering. Each place you conquer would have a different set of resources it produces, and you'd be able to improve resource production by investing your existing resources. So it becomes a question of what you need to defend yourself and conquer additional lands, and what you can spare to invest and grow production in already-conquered areas. Basically, I really really like the economic model in Imperialism II and may just copy that.
I don't think resource depletion is a good idea. Ultimately, the game does need to snowball - tip out of balance - for a side to win. The design challenge is to make this happen at a pace that is fun - no instant wins or losses, no endless stalemate.
@madking321 @DragoonIII - I have deleted your last two comments each. Please re-familiarize yourself with the forum code of conduct. Do not call each other names. Do not belittle each other's points.
I generally really like your contributions on the forum, and those deletions weren't an easy decision. You both sound pretty stressed out. Take care of yourselves, OK?
My apologies for the snappy comments. I'm steadily getting ore depressed, and worst of all, I don't have the slightest clue as to why.
On the note of resources...
I just don't like the idea of an infinite resource well. Because once again you have the option to sit on your duff and do nothing. Though i guess there would be the upkeep factor that would drain resources.
If you have a limited resource well then you have to actually declare war to gain resources, causing a similar situation that we have today.
Empires that snowball would still be a thing, but it would not be such an easy task.
This would be because even if you have accumulated a vast resource cache from your nearly-fully-harvested resource wells, and domination; you would still have to specialize and be careful how you use your fleet, so as not to go bankrupt.
I like the system From The Depths uses.
You could have every city start with a certain amount of resources which you can immediately use up. The amount of resources in the city would still slowly grow, but once you've used up the resources given to you initially, you'd be slowed down considerably by the regen rate of the city.
With that, you still won't be able to sit around, because once you've used up the initial resources you'd be at a disadvantage.
Not sure if I'm to late for the party but I have an idea about resources.
It involves a 2-currency system. In this system, money is solely used for maintenance and spy actions (meaning the maintenance cost can increase?). How do you create ships? With the second currency or resource called "production". Production stands for the resources and manpower needed to create ships. Production is generated by citties, each city having its own rate of generating it. The catch is, production is not global, each city stores its own inventory of production. You can't use the production of city1 to build a ship in city 2.
A possible scenario with this, is that you have a city1 with a small shipyard,that has a high amount of production generated and/or stored, and a city2 that has a large shipyard, but generates little production (or emptied its supply). In this scenario, you'd want to transfer production from C1 to C2.
In the strategic map, when you click on a city, next to the create/design land/airship, and defences, another button called "send resources" is added. Upon clicking this button there will appear "send to" buttons at citties connected via land routes (like when moving landships from A to B). When selected to which city resources will be sent to, an icon indicating a cargo unit, will appear that moves across the road to said city (again, like a landship). Cargo units will be vulnerable against interception, where as (like landships going across water) the unit is lost when intercepted.
What happens with intercepted cargo? Maybe its lost? Maybe the production will be spread amongst all cities of the interceptor's nation?
Because this uses so much similarities to how landships move and act on the strategic map. I thought it might not be that difficult to implement. The hardest part to code probably being the localization of resources, and not having a global treasury in the top corner like money (which can remain global).
But I don't know coding, so I wouldn't be able to tell if its possible or not.
If trading were a thing, you could possibly buy/sell production for money.
I'm just going to add to the resources and money thing and say that i would like it if currency acted like it did in real life. As in it would circulate and could inflate.
I would like to make a few comments on this thread:
Finite resources across the entire map for an entire game: BAD
Finite resources in a turn: GOOD
Inflation in a game: BAD (never seen it done well in a game balancing way)
Infinite resource should be available for a price. (to prevent being totally screwed on recourses) i.e. Lets say at town produces 10 wood valued at a fix $10, and you need 20. I would let the player:
a: buy it, at lets say $8 at a independent lumber mill (on the map) and import it with a airship/land ship.
b: buy the additional 10 wood in town for $20. So if you don't have a good source of whatever resources you need you can still buy at the market, white, grey or black.
This would give you a strong incentive to commerce raid. All the ships moving goods about. Trade modules should be heavy enough to make arming them counter intuitive, with cheap maintinces cost.
I really like the idea of trading resources and cargo hauling ships with big heavy cargo modules. Then you can have more strategy in the campaign and more to do. It adds the element of putting together caravan fleets of cargo haulers and escorts which then presents the opportunity to raid caravan fleets mid-journey. There should be a cool down period while cargo ship loads up before it can fly off and then a cool down when offloading making it a little more vulnerable at those times. If destroyed at any time, a cargo ship should yield some small percentage of cargo to the victor. If captured, all of it. Expensive and/or heavy and/or costly in coal modules like Cargo Cranes or a Cargo Master can speed up loading and unloading. Just some thoughts.
I really like the concept of trading, which is why i want finite resources, which are only native to certain regions, which gives you incentive to trade.