Midshipman, Engineering Corps
Why was my ram ship "defeated" when it ran out of ammo for its rifle? Who does it even need to have a rifle to not have it be insta-defeated? I don't wanna shoot, I just wanna pound stuff D=
Commander, Engineering Corps
Well, the thing is that changing the conditions of "defeated" for ship to make only-ramming-ships possibly will literally break the game.
This was discussed a year ago when rams were introduced to the game and an only-ramming-ships would be weak as hell.
I still hate the "No Ammo" loss condition. There's boarding, and ramming now and that rule feels just antiquated now. The new meta in the game isn't to actually kill the badguys its more about storing a whole bunch of coal and ammo and out lasting them through attrition alone.
I'll often put a flipped grenade somewhere stupid so that my boarding ship won't shoot at the enemies and waste ammo - which is equally broken imo.
I think tweaking the "No Ammo" rule would make static defenses much more valuable and in-general much more powerful in practice. They'd have to actually destroy or capture every building to break the defenses. A siege ship my be more focused on boarding than shooting as a result making a couple different kinds of strategies more useful. But currently, the lack of tactical flexibility feels stifling. I certainly feel cheated when I lose due to ammo but the enemy has been completely unable to break my armor.
Defeated ships should be:
- No crew (not 'no quarters', living crew)
- No weapons/boarders
- No Coal
- No Lift
Defeated buildings should be:
- No crew
If all the ships on the player's team run out of ammo, have a "Surrender/Flee" button show up and a 30 second "Surrendering in 29..." starts counting down, instead of forcing the player to lose the match (and then run away anyways).
I should be able to fight to the last man or at least the last few seconds. I want to ram the enemy with the shatter husks of the last survivors of the battle. Maybe I'll get lucky and completely destroy their fleet or lightning may save the day.
Air Lord, Engineering Corps
Just support your ramming/boarding ships with other vessels or actually make them have multiple roles.
Solely boarding/ramming should not be alone anyways without support, that just seems like a bad tactical decision to me.
Even with that 'no weapons/boarders' defeat requirement it still will probably break the game, because if even a single boarder gets stuck somewhere or climbs a sky island while the ship he's trying to get to is 500 meters off the ground then it won't work because he will never die.
It is a bit silly that you need ammo stores for that kind of stuff though, i agree with you on that. But right now is the best way i think without breaking the win/lose mechanics.
Actually you could change the requirements to basically say, 'no weapon ships get a 30 second grace period before they are counted as defeated' and 'if an allied crew is in an enemy ship that is functional then that ship counts as active for both teams until one crew wins over the other'.
That would work!
Yeah, this is something I definitely want to revisit. I originally picked the simple and restrictive rules for what counts as "not defeated" to try and make reasonably sure that fights wouldn't end in a stalemate, but with all the new stuff that's gone into the game since, that rule needs revising.
A simple set of rules would be "all ships count as not defeated for 30 seconds at the start", "ships with two different crews (enemy/ally) count as Not Defeated for both sides" and finally "ships with at least one ram, bridge, propulsion module (and lift if airship) are not defeated" in addition to the normal rules excluding the ammunition store rule if the ram rule applies to a certain ship.
I think that would create a good system, i don't see any loopholes that could break the games mechanics there.
@Firebird11 maybe air/landships that lost their lift/propulsion should not be counted as defeated as long as they still have ranged weapons that aren't pointed downward?