*A bomber with no self defense system but the ability to drop bombs (May have a tail gunner)
*Make the distinction in between what role each flyer is meant to play more obvious. I still have difficulty understanding the roles certain aircraft are meant to play.
*Perhaps make them slightly more durable?
*Allow them the ability to tilt their bodies to dogfight with one another.
*Make them automatically take the symbol and main colors of the nation they belong to. Also allow them to be painted and decorated.
*Allow them the ability to take and receive certain orders (I.E. Escort)
*Allow them the ability to shoot down aerial torpedoes.
*Make the green outline that signifies a friendly ship appear on fighters.
in real life, the only "zeppelin carrier" that existed held the planes on its bottom, which would be nice if it were in game (like a certain mod has done recently)
it would be cool if you could find many different types of bombers and fighters from different cities on the map, depending on their size and shipyard size, like the spiderbay, the suspendum cannon, the dragoons, etc.
for realizm (and somewhat for preference) it would be nice if instead of the plane system currently in place, a variant system would be put in place to use runways, that way the planes would land properly, not like a helicopter, and so you could have multiple flight decks on a ship. maybe even a hangar/elevator system like modern carriers, although that may be overkill
All ideas sound reasonable. Still don't like the idea of planes being mounted on the bottom, it just doesn't feel right, imagine the difficulty of trying to resupply.
Yeah, that seems sensible in some context but they're supposed to land to resupply and a hanging version wouldn't really make sense. (In-Game) . Thanks for the ideas though!
*Make biplane the staring tech and triplane the unlockable. Why would someone figure out how to put 3 wings together to make something fly before 2?
*Add a collision with the earth and make planes have no ability to go through it.
*Planes either explode spectacularly or dive into the earth to create wreckage when destroyed. Not this tiny balloon pop.
*Why hasn't anyone though of this? Make a "Lead Pilot" Portrait and make him say things like "Coming in for an attack run!" and "Were getting shot to pieces!".
Well, as long as the game doesn't feel over-saturated, we could have many different fighter types. But with the concept of multiple decks... I mean this IS airships not 1975, I doubt they will design THOSE types of aircraft carriers anytime soon and it does break the meta slightly... Maybe when diesel engines are implemented and everything is automated?
true, i guess i just like the idea of overpowered carriers xD
but still, it would be nice if the planes wouldn't land by going practically strait down like a helicopter, it'd be nice if they would land with a large approach like a real plane would (and the landing can take some time, with the current module, the plane IRL would fall off the end of the carrier, which is another reason why i suggested a runway system
Eh, landing would probably look a lot better if the ability for planes to actually tilt was implemented. (What I mentioned earlier) Right now, it almost looks like a cardboard cutout.
The planes need to be painted in the colors of our Heraldy.
I got no idea whos plane is flying trough my airships and i don't see how my gunners are supossed to know that.
Of corse they do, but from a semi-logical standpoint, how would they, if not even the captain got a clue?
I just played a round. They got planes, i got planes.
We got basicly only planes fielded. Carrier against carrier.
And i got no clue who was dominating...
I know that planes are units, and because of this are virtually no diffrence from a other one.
I don't know, put the Heraldy on the back?
Color the tail as the second color?
Just a way i can tell whoes plane is flying by. Not knowing who has the air-supperiorety is a bad situation. And as you pointed out, the AI doesn't got this problem.
What if i want to target a specific ship, but only if i am sure there are no planes my small arms are not needed to clear the sky?
Usually planes of equal quantity clear each other, but people who aren't experienced enough to manage building carriers in beta don't usually mount anti-unit defenses onto all of their ships. I for one have at least five guns/units on every ship that can target unis.
Planes will target craft that are neutralized until they are completely destroyed. This pretty cool when I want a craft destroyed completely, but not so when there are other targets to attack.
Planes target modules seemingly from the top down with no regard to importance; It feels like everything has caught this problem too, by the way, I've seen cannons & rifles target Fire points and Barracks modules instead of weapons, suspension, command or resource modules.
I don't know if it's a bug or not, but I've seen one instance of a fleshcracker snatching a triplane out of the sky and eating it, so just letting everyone know that's a thing.
Having planes obey your heraldry will come in a future update. It's tied up with a bunch of other things relating to crew rendering. But yeah, there should be some way to differentiate them, hmm.
Planes should now take off in a more plane-like fashion, the vertical takeoff thing was a bug I introduced at the last moment.
AFAIK Triplanes are actually more primitive than biplanes in general. People compensated for not knowing much about planes yet by just adding lots of wings. So the Triplane is basically a Sopwith Triplane and the Biplane is a Sopwith Camel.
Shooting down aerial torpedoes: ungghh, it makes so much sense, but it's a bunch of additional work because now you have shots that target other shots. I'll think about it. :)
Planes crashing instead of just exploding: this is also extra work, but it so has to happen, so look for it in beta 3. :)
Also, yeah, fighter ace portrait would be... ace. I'll commission it. :)
Fleshcrackers eating planes: Not intended, but awesome IMO. :)
Finally, thank you for your many suggestions and active discussion!
Pyromanik, those are all things that are intentional and do not need fixing... I've said it before but there is a real problem with people complaining that the game isn't easy enough... like, what???
B: we understand. it will probably be worked on before the next update, remember, this is just the BETA were in right now, there lots of bugs and kinks to be worked out, im sure.
You can target ships manually, and even if you don't do that the guns target something else if their current target is disarmed. I admit that I was wrong about the Fleshcrackers (they do eat units so I assumed the planes were intentional as well) and if you really want to play the knowledge game, I think that it won't end well for any of us
Planes will target craft that are neutralized until they are completely destroyed. This pretty cool when I want a craft destroyed completely, but not so when there are other targets to attack.
Good point. I'll look into this and make them smarter about who to attack.
Planes target modules seemingly from the top down with no regard to importance; It feels like everything has caught this problem too, by the way, I've seen cannons & rifles target Fire points and Barracks modules instead of weapons, suspension, command or resource modules.
I feel that the less precise module targeting is an OK tradeoff for planes. Given their extreme accuracy at close range, they would otherwise be very overpowered. I haven't intentionally changed anything about the targeting of ship weapons, but I'll check if something has changed. They're intended to not always fire at weak points, again for balance reasons.
zark, since there are powered aircraft in the game now, will there be any sort of support aircraft? to be honest, sort of like what im doing in the mod ive been failing to code properly, just less complicated?
aircraft that will fly into a battle (presumably from a ship of some sort) and will go to other friendly ships and pick up wounded airmen, bring them back to the main ship, and (if the ship has a sickbay) will heal them, then return them.
and/or if the ship does not have a sickbay, but has extra supply's, the support aircraft could fly them to other friendly ships that need them (although this "and/or" is just an after thought, the main reason is for the wounded)
take, for instance, the MASH units used in the korean war by america. they would send helicopters (in the games case, it would be maybe a hussar or something) and they would go into the heart of the battlefield, and pick up 1-4 soldiers, and return them to the MASH unit (MASH, by the way, was the short name for "mobile army surgical hostpital") where the surgeons and nurses of the unit would treat said wounded, and the helicopters would bring them to a reconnaissance base, then they would continue fighting after a couple weeks.
(you might be able to tell, i love MASH units, it was a great idea (take the mod im failing to make, as well as my legacy insignia, a red cross))
I would absolutely adore a reverse wasp nest that sends out drones, or crew members with float harnesses, to repair ships instead of attacking enemy crew. Balancing that sounds like a fine line between OP and useless, however.
Nobody's said anything about the new bombers! What's everyone think of them?
i sort of like the new bombers, i think it would be cool if they dropped their bombs along the way to the enemy and the bomb would transition from forward-facing to downward-facing with its velocity, and i also think they should be a little more powerful for the space they take up, perhaps
Oh wow, how was I so stupid? I completely forgot about the rule of tincture! It's okay though I'll just change the parchment color to white and claim it's silver.
On MASH units Eh, it would probably go to waste. You would have to program it in a very specific way so the flyers look for the wounded frequently enough that is doesn't feel underpowered, but not so that it feels overpowered. Flying Repair Drones DO sound pretty cool though. It would require roughly the same programming.
Also, I would appreciate if some comments were deleted. This is discussion on flyers in the game, not avatars.
Now, back to business.
*Damage models for planes (Similar to the ones for monsters) would be useful to keep track of the outcome of combat.
*Planes keep rapidly changing direction on their flight pad. I doubt they do that in real life.
Also, the ability for aerial torpedoes to be shot down could actually give the suspendium cannon an advantage over aerial torpedoes, which it sorely needs.
MASH units and Repair drones would be the same thing- they act like ordinary crew do, moving wounded to sickbays and tools from repair bays, but they only do one job and are able to move from ship to ship.
Suspendium cannons already have the advantage in that they are more accurate, are less easily dodged, and use Suspendium instead of explodium, which causes less damage to the parent ship when torpedos inevitably explode in the bay. Also, anti-torpedo torpedos have only been an thing for less than a decade now.
Not sure if this has already been said, but you could reverse the role of the MASH units in Airships.
Say, if a MASH ship detects injured crew on another (non-medbay) ship it will dispatch field medics who carry the tools to fix crew on the spot before needing to go back and resupply.
that, however is not the work of a MASH, that is the work of an aid station. (however, on some personal occasions to the surgeons, they make friends with certain wounded and, although against regulation to do so, go to aid them)
Basically a heavier version of the air hussar, complete with a light flamethrower! Would also explode rather violently, seeing as its filled with a flammable liquid.
I seem to notice a bug which makes the animation for a downed plane still play on its landing pad. And maybe flyers crashing would look better if they had more of an impact on the earth?
Suspendium wasps (And possibly bees) Are doing this weird glitch were they don't attack anyone in boarding combat. Bee and wasp nests should also have a damaged variant.
Bees and wasps seem to have this glitch were their wings flap even in death. And Air Hussars should probably get a damaged variant too... Also they try to play a death animation but don't seem to fall. They just sorta tilt.
Air Admiral
*A bomber with no self defense system but the ability to drop bombs (May have a tail gunner)
*Make the distinction in between what role each flyer is meant to play more obvious. I still have difficulty understanding the roles certain aircraft are meant to play.
*Perhaps make them slightly more durable?
*Allow them the ability to tilt their bodies to dogfight with one another.
*Make them automatically take the symbol and main colors of the nation they belong to. Also allow them to be painted and decorated.
*Allow them the ability to take and receive certain orders (I.E. Escort)
*Allow them the ability to shoot down aerial torpedoes.
*Make the green outline that signifies a friendly ship appear on fighters.
*Perhaps add Gyrocopter?
Commodore
i have some of my own ideas i would like to add,
in real life, the only "zeppelin carrier" that existed held the planes on its bottom, which would be nice if it were in game (like a certain mod has done recently)
it would be cool if you could find many different types of bombers and fighters from different cities on the map, depending on their size and shipyard size, like the spiderbay, the suspendum cannon, the dragoons, etc.
for realizm (and somewhat for preference) it would be nice if instead of the plane system currently in place, a variant system would be put in place to use runways, that way the planes would land properly, not like a helicopter, and so you could have multiple flight decks on a ship. maybe even a hangar/elevator system like modern carriers, although that may be overkill
Please let me know what you think! :D
Commodore
All ideas sound reasonable. Still don't like the idea of planes being mounted on the bottom, it just doesn't feel right, imagine the difficulty of trying to resupply.
Commodore
considering that:
A: they are open-cockpit aircraft
B: thats the only way its ever REALLY been done
C: no takeoff is required
it makes sense to me
Air Admiral
Yeah, that seems sensible in some context but they're supposed to land to resupply and a hanging version wouldn't really make sense. (In-Game) . Thanks for the ideas though!
Air Admiral
Alright! New ideas!
*Make biplane the staring tech and triplane the unlockable. Why would someone figure out how to put 3 wings together to make something fly before 2?
*Add a collision with the earth and make planes have no ability to go through it.
*Planes either explode spectacularly or dive into the earth to create wreckage when destroyed. Not this tiny balloon pop.
*Why hasn't anyone though of this? Make a "Lead Pilot" Portrait and make him say things like "Coming in for an attack run!" and "Were getting shot to pieces!".
Commodore
what about my other two ideas though, what is your opinion?
Air Admiral
Well, as long as the game doesn't feel over-saturated, we could have many different fighter types. But with the concept of multiple decks... I mean this IS airships not 1975, I doubt they will design THOSE types of aircraft carriers anytime soon and it does break the meta slightly... Maybe when diesel engines are implemented and everything is automated?
Commodore
true, i guess i just like the idea of overpowered carriers xD
but still, it would be nice if the planes wouldn't land by going practically strait down like a helicopter, it'd be nice if they would land with a large approach like a real plane would (and the landing can take some time, with the current module, the plane IRL would fall off the end of the carrier, which is another reason why i suggested a runway system
Air Admiral
Eh, landing would probably look a lot better if the ability for planes to actually tilt was implemented. (What I mentioned earlier) Right now, it almost looks like a cardboard cutout.
Commodore
hmm, you make a good point.
Midshipman
The planes need to be painted in the colors of our Heraldy. I got no idea whos plane is flying trough my airships and i don't see how my gunners are supossed to know that.
Commodore
You gunners know because they are the AI :p
Midshipman
Of corse they do, but from a semi-logical standpoint, how would they, if not even the captain got a clue?
I just played a round. They got planes, i got planes. We got basicly only planes fielded. Carrier against carrier. And i got no clue who was dominating...
I know that planes are units, and because of this are virtually no diffrence from a other one.
I don't know, put the Heraldy on the back? Color the tail as the second color?
Just a way i can tell whoes plane is flying by. Not knowing who has the air-supperiorety is a bad situation. And as you pointed out, the AI doesn't got this problem. What if i want to target a specific ship, but only if i am sure there are no planes my small arms are not needed to clear the sky?
Commodore
Usually planes of equal quantity clear each other, but people who aren't experienced enough to manage building carriers in beta don't usually mount anti-unit defenses onto all of their ships. I for one have at least five guns/units on every ship that can target unis.
Air Admiral
I literally already suggested planes painted with heraldry colors generic-guy... It's in the same thread and everything...
Commodore
it bothers me because people keep on saying things that have already been said, not once, now twice, not even thrice...
but [insert number] times.
Air Admiral
Yeah. Thats more the fatal flaw of our forum, I would imagine...
Midshipman
A couple things-
Planes will target craft that are neutralized until they are completely destroyed. This pretty cool when I want a craft destroyed completely, but not so when there are other targets to attack.
Planes target modules seemingly from the top down with no regard to importance; It feels like everything has caught this problem too, by the way, I've seen cannons & rifles target Fire points and Barracks modules instead of weapons, suspension, command or resource modules.
I don't know if it's a bug or not, but I've seen one instance of a fleshcracker snatching a triplane out of the sky and eating it, so just letting everyone know that's a thing.
Commodore
They already do that
Micromanagement is a chore
Fleshcrackers can eat units
Midshipman
...That's what I just said. It's why I decided to make a post in the "things to be fixed" thread.
Aerial Emperor
Finally, thank you for your many suggestions and active discussion!
Commodore
Pyromanik, those are all things that are intentional and do not need fixing... I've said it before but there is a real problem with people complaining that the game isn't easy enough... like, what???
Commodore
and also, Zark is back! yaaaay
Commodore
hail the returned emperor!
Commodore
A: dude chill
B: we understand. it will probably be worked on before the next update, remember, this is just the BETA were in right now, there lots of bugs and kinks to be worked out, im sure.
Commodore
Pyromanik:
The rules on this forum is to be respectful :)
You can target ships manually, and even if you don't do that the guns target something else if their current target is disarmed. I admit that I was wrong about the Fleshcrackers (they do eat units so I assumed the planes were intentional as well) and if you really want to play the knowledge game, I think that it won't end well for any of us
Well then...
Aerial Emperor
Be nice to each other, all of you. See the forum rules. In particular:
Pyromanik: I deleted your comment because of the name-calling, but I'll be posting a detailed response to your questions shortly.
Aerial Emperor
Planes will target craft that are neutralized until they are completely destroyed. This pretty cool when I want a craft destroyed completely, but not so when there are other targets to attack.
Good point. I'll look into this and make them smarter about who to attack.
Planes target modules seemingly from the top down with no regard to importance; It feels like everything has caught this problem too, by the way, I've seen cannons & rifles target Fire points and Barracks modules instead of weapons, suspension, command or resource modules.
I feel that the less precise module targeting is an OK tradeoff for planes. Given their extreme accuracy at close range, they would otherwise be very overpowered. I haven't intentionally changed anything about the targeting of ship weapons, but I'll check if something has changed. They're intended to not always fire at weak points, again for balance reasons.
Commodore
zark, since there are powered aircraft in the game now, will there be any sort of support aircraft? to be honest, sort of like what im doing in the mod ive been failing to code properly, just less complicated?
Aerial Emperor
Hmm, what do you mean with support aircraft?
Commodore
aircraft that will fly into a battle (presumably from a ship of some sort) and will go to other friendly ships and pick up wounded airmen, bring them back to the main ship, and (if the ship has a sickbay) will heal them, then return them.
and/or if the ship does not have a sickbay, but has extra supply's, the support aircraft could fly them to other friendly ships that need them (although this "and/or" is just an after thought, the main reason is for the wounded)
Commodore
take, for instance, the MASH units used in the korean war by america. they would send helicopters (in the games case, it would be maybe a hussar or something) and they would go into the heart of the battlefield, and pick up 1-4 soldiers, and return them to the MASH unit (MASH, by the way, was the short name for "mobile army surgical hostpital") where the surgeons and nurses of the unit would treat said wounded, and the helicopters would bring them to a reconnaissance base, then they would continue fighting after a couple weeks.
(you might be able to tell, i love MASH units, it was a great idea (take the mod im failing to make, as well as my legacy insignia, a red cross))
Midshipman
I would absolutely adore a reverse wasp nest that sends out drones, or crew members with float harnesses, to repair ships instead of attacking enemy crew. Balancing that sounds like a fine line between OP and useless, however.
Nobody's said anything about the new bombers! What's everyone think of them?
Commodore
thats not what i meant by support aircraft lol
i sort of like the new bombers, i think it would be cool if they dropped their bombs along the way to the enemy and the bomb would transition from forward-facing to downward-facing with its velocity, and i also think they should be a little more powerful for the space they take up, perhaps
Commodore
i dont know what your coat of arms was before, so all im gonna say is im speechless
Midshipman
...Is that even possible?
Warrant Officer
Damn, not to change the topic of the thread by continuing to talk about it, but, is it really that bad?
Commodore
noone said it was bad :P i think its fine, and in terms of pyro's comment, it can be interpreted as a nice comment too
Midshipman
It's not bad at all, I'm impressed you somehow got the program to violate the rule of tincture.
Edit: apparently you can when using the quarterly design, I stand corrected. Still, I think it looks neat.
Warrant Officer
Oh wow, how was I so stupid? I completely forgot about the rule of tincture! It's okay though I'll just change the parchment color to white and claim it's silver.
Commodore
ok, now the avatar talk is getting out of hand xD after all this is a different subject, remember
Commodore
Maybe add Aircraft Factories, which build aircraft as long as you have a platform and repair parts. They must be connected with the platform.
Commodore
that may be a little overpowered
Air Admiral
On MASH units Eh, it would probably go to waste. You would have to program it in a very specific way so the flyers look for the wounded frequently enough that is doesn't feel underpowered, but not so that it feels overpowered. Flying Repair Drones DO sound pretty cool though. It would require roughly the same programming.
Also, I would appreciate if some comments were deleted. This is discussion on flyers in the game, not avatars.
Now, back to business.
*Damage models for planes (Similar to the ones for monsters) would be useful to keep track of the outcome of combat.
*Planes keep rapidly changing direction on their flight pad. I doubt they do that in real life.
Air Admiral
Also, the ability for aerial torpedoes to be shot down could actually give the suspendium cannon an advantage over aerial torpedoes, which it sorely needs.
Midshipman
MASH units and Repair drones would be the same thing- they act like ordinary crew do, moving wounded to sickbays and tools from repair bays, but they only do one job and are able to move from ship to ship.
Suspendium cannons already have the advantage in that they are more accurate, are less easily dodged, and use Suspendium instead of explodium, which causes less damage to the parent ship when torpedos inevitably explode in the bay. Also, anti-torpedo torpedos have only been an thing for less than a decade now.
Commodore
the mash units, however, recover vastly more wounded at the cost of... well literal cost
Air Lord, Engineering Corps
Not sure if this has already been said, but you could reverse the role of the MASH units in Airships.
Say, if a MASH ship detects injured crew on another (non-medbay) ship it will dispatch field medics who carry the tools to fix crew on the spot before needing to go back and resupply.
Commodore
that, however is not the work of a MASH, that is the work of an aid station. (however, on some personal occasions to the surgeons, they make friends with certain wounded and, although against regulation to do so, go to aid them)
Air Admiral
So what does everyone think of the new beta? Still need to shoot down torpedos!
Commodore
i didnt realize there was a new beta untill now :O cant wait! :D
Commodore
ok, so i tried the new beta for about 20 minutes, and it crashed on me, the game has sent the info to zark, according to the game
Commodore
just happened again, almost exact same circumstance.
Aerial Emperor
Yes indeed, I appear to have introduced two really common new crashes, one in crew rendering and one in the ships list. Will fix ASAP!
Commodore
ok, thanks, Zark! :D other than that, i love the update, the bombers feel a lot better now :)
Air Admiral
Alright, new idea!
Fireflies
Basically a heavier version of the air hussar, complete with a light flamethrower! Would also explode rather violently, seeing as its filled with a flammable liquid.
Commodore
interesting idea, and nice name for it too :P
Commodore
or maybe dragonfly?
Commodore
Zark, i still seem to be crashing, although not as frequently
Air Admiral
I seem to notice a bug which makes the animation for a downed plane still play on its landing pad. And maybe flyers crashing would look better if they had more of an impact on the earth?
Air Admiral
Suspendium wasps (And possibly bees) Are doing this weird glitch were they don't attack anyone in boarding combat. Bee and wasp nests should also have a damaged variant.
Air Admiral
Bees and wasps seem to have this glitch were their wings flap even in death. And Air Hussars should probably get a damaged variant too... Also they try to play a death animation but don't seem to fall. They just sorta tilt.